And this is why there's a warning about the GPS being for recreational use. Garmin is not advertising their map database as a life-saving device and for good reason. This is a valid complaint, though. The question is, who supplies the data to Garmin and when did it go missing? Did it get dropped from Garmin's database, or from their source data?
Only Garmin can answer. Doesn't Garmin include statements all over the place to the effect that you should not depend on the data supplied in life-critical situations? I was addressing Phil's statement that GPS fundamentally shouldn't be relied on for safety of life situations because of electronics failure or satellite disruption, NOT the data issue. Aviation GPSs are affected by electronics failure and satellite disruption like automotive units, yet they are still good enough for critical applications.
The idea that GPS is so fundamentally unreliable that anything Garmin does or fails to do in their units is OK doesn't make sense. You are correct about the stringency of aviation data. However that level of data verification and associated expense is not needed for automotive GPS databases. Printed yellow pages, other mapping programs, etc all have vastly more up to date and accurate hospital POI lists than Garmin City Select 7.
The Garmin start-up statement on my C says in part: "information is presented for reference only That's a legal liability disclaimer, NOT a justification for sloppy or incomplete work. When Garmin provides a dedicated hospital lookup function, there's a reasonable expectation the data will be somewhat complete and accurate.
Not virtually perfect like aviation units, but reasonably complete and accurate like a paper map, yellow pages, other mapping programs, etc.
The problem is on City Select 7. Other POI categories are also affected, but it's more serious for hospitals. It's the same issue. When you buy an aviation unit you are paying more dollars because the unit is certified for aviation and some guarantees are supposed to come with that. Note, however, that Phil's statements still have merit: even the most modern planes are still equipped with a magnetic compass and mechanical artificial horizon.
For cars, it's not the GPS so much as the map data. For roads, getting accurate map and routing information is difficult espeically in rural areas, hence the disclaimers. For aviation, someone is presumably checking the data for accuracy and completeness. That's much easier than it is for the road network. Except there's no national registry of this information. Hence you have a problem already in just gathering the data. After that, you have issues of data size and currency.
Where do you draw the line at POIs? You're all hung up about hospitals because presumably you are concerned about emergencies. Well, here's another angle for you to chew on: in the event of an emergency, the best course of action is to call for help, not go to your GPS and search for a hospital. True -- but the last time I saw an airplane land at my local hospital, that was not their intent.
Handy place to crash, though: All were saved. I cannot. I assume it relates to agreements with vendors and such. In some areas even governments are in that loop. More sales would always be a good thing. Do you work for Garmin? If not, why are you shilling for them with such nonsense?
Furthermore, when they are saying that you should not rely on GPS in life or death situations, they are talking about such things as going into the wilderness without compass and map backup - not points of interest relevent to travellers! And since you are defending Garmin's and their goofy and expensive maps, what about addressing the inclusion of all the GARBAGE - the gay and lesbian centers, the rug cleaners, the unknown names - and the concommitant exclusion of emergency centers and all non-commercial campgrounds?
Certainly you have the right to complain about what POIs are included and which are not, or anything else you don't like. And to vote with your pocketbook -- If you don't like Garmin's products, buy something else.
If you don't like any of them, start your own company and see if you can make money selling what you think people want and need. But don't claim Garmin has a "responsibility" to make their unit do what you want or what you think is important. They don't. Somewhere along the line, you've gotta learn to use your own brains to figure out what tool to use for the job. Roy Lewallen. Well in the UK it was rather helped by large numbers of public telephone boxes, every one containing a copy of the regional directory and with free access to the directory enquiry system.
Since privatization the number of call boxes has plummeted, paper directories were removed on the grounds that the directory enquiry system was free and efficient and once we had got used to that the free directory enquiry service was withdrawn!
Not quite as simple as that. In the UK the "Sale of Goods Act" states that on item must be "fit for purpose" and that includes any purpose for which an item may reasonably be used including those for which is not explicitly sold.
Thus whilst clearly it is not reasonable to use a screwdriver to pry off a manhole cover, using it to prise the lid off a paint can would be considered a reasonable and indeed traditional use. Not a case of making a unit do what any particular individual wants to see but merely a reasonable expectation that it will do what the manufacturer claims including implied claims. Unfortunately Garmin follows the lead of all major software producers in supplying equipment that in various ways plainly doesn't work as advertised.
Often the problems are trivial but sometimes they can be serious and potentially life-threatening. I notice that my Vista contains a Jumpmaster application for use in conducting parachute drops - I have no experience of sky-diving but any company offering a facility such as this which clearly has safety of life issues would be irresponsible in the extreme to hide behind the welcome screen's disclaimer messages in the event of a serious incident involving the use of the product.
Any facility that may reasonably be used by any normal user not just those of us with an in-depth understanding of the limitations of the technology should be engineered properly or not included at all. True, in some mainly urban areas this was indeed a serious problem and probably associated with the reduction in police cover with the withdrawal of the "bobby on the Beat". However I rarely encountered a vandalized phone box in all my years of relying on public telephones in remote rural areas and I believe that the telephone company used it as an excuse to justify a reduction in services nationally.
While the above v6 products show some tiny state parks, they then leave out large national parks in the same states; this, and the other POI choices that people have commented on is just a sad statement on Garmin's priorities or lack of in the preparation of what could have been an extremely useful and well thought out resource. Someone says "don't buy Garmin Maps then" but we've already bought them without knowing , and only after trying to use them have discovered that they lack some major details.
Even after reading through this groups posts, and before buying, I looked for GPS reviews and comments all over the web, I still don't really know if there is anything better. I bought a VistaC then got interested in better mapping, then a GPS 18 partly to get the CitySelect Maps that it was bundled with, but also it will keep my VistaC off the dashboards sun and heat. And yes, I will have to carry and look at a road atlas while traveling to make up for this and other lacks in the Garmin products, but I don't want to have to stop in every county I drive through to get a local map, and that is the benefit of a computerized map product.
So the issue here is that Garmin could easily make a better product and apparently is making it worse instead--Is anyone at Garmin Listening? Can I? The issue is NOT providing data, but the quality of that data. Several have posted Garmin's has a start-up disclaimer, so what if the POI data is incomplete.
That's like saying a software shrink wrap licensing agreement that states you accept it "as is" means no matter how much it crashes, or fails to work you have no right to complain -- you accepted it "as is" when you broke the shrinkwrap. Screwdrivers are made to drive screws and should reasonably work that way. A mapping GPS with a POI database is obviously designed to look up POIs -- using it thusly is not at odds with the intended design purpose, whereas using a screwdriver to pry off a manhole cover is.
That's exactly what we're doing. It comes down to what's defined as reasonable. The poster who feels all campgrounds are important? The one who thinks all hospitals are important? What if someone thinks all gas stations are important? Or Italian restaurants? And then what if that's not possible? That doesn't sound like a reasonable solution to me. I'm not saying Garmin's right to have allegedly fewer POI's in v7 than in v6, or that their hospotal coverage is adequate.
If it is a 18 USB, I think not. Nobody has asked for that in this thread. Even for such limited items as hospitals it's drastically incomplete. There are only about 6, hospitals in the entire US, so it doesn't require huge storage.
This is further illustrated by other mapping programs having these POIs. MetroGuide v4 was a superior map. If it had continued to evolve, it would be much superior to this City Select junk. Why did they switch map companies? And, yeah, I'd like to switch away from Garmin to a better GPS company even tho I've been using their stuff for years, going back to model 2.
Garmin's tech support is no longer anything to write home about either. Garmin didn't respond to me either. No, no public campgrounds on City Select 7 - but plenty of "gay and lesbian centers"! My apologies. I extrapolated from such comments as "it's a life safety issue" and "hospitals should be the 1 priority".
I still believe that people are getting too worked up over the issue of which POIs are and are not included. I suspect that's because we're coming from two different points of view. Mine is that the POI database is a shortcut for looking up some locations I know about in advance vs.
The other is that the POI database should be for finding unknown and spur-of-the moment destinations. While both views are valid, they lead to vastly different expectations of the product, and the latter is almost guaranteed to lead to disappointment.
Not so. Personally, I accept what Garmin sells or I do not buy it. You can make the same choice. If their products are so bad that they do not sell in sufficient volume to stay in business and make a good profit, they might be motivated to change them.
I expect that will not happen. What they offer does the job for me. Perfect: No. But good enough. Which ones? How about the ones in the previous version. They fit fine. But at least I'll know where to get my nails done I was doing my best to plan routes and stopping points, and though the MG 6 has this wonderful searching feature and I love the small road detail to navigate with, I had to use the paper map to find campgrounds and National Parks and Forests -- how quaint :- If this isn't a really major oversight then it is a very warped sense of priority by whoever is doing the mapping AND the POI entry.
The problem is that there hasn't been adequate attention paid to the selection of the POIs. For example, there has been criticism of the coverage of campgrounds. But the preponderance of places I find in the "Campground" subcategory on my Garmin maps are instead summer sports camps, bible camps, mobile home parks, school camps, debate camps, cooking camps, etc. OTOH, state and local parks which do provide such lodging are almost completely absent from the listings.
Even odder is that many of the summer camp locations listed don't show the location of the actual facility but rather the residence of some contact person.
Therefore my residential neighborhood is shown as containing several "campgrounds" - none of which are anywhere near here, nor are any what would normally be considered a campground. Another category is "Emergency Services" with "Hospitals" as a subcategory.
Here at least most of the listed places do appear to be in the right place, but the listings are woefully incomplete. With 6 million POIs it doesn't seem unreasonable to expect that every moderate sized community would have at least one or more hospitals included.
If you know a location town or such inside the NF, that would work. Likley if you drive into that area you may see it shown on the map. Detail seems to vary as you near a particular area and leave it. Where did I say that Garmin has a "responsibilty" to do this or that? I'm just saying that City Select is piece of crap, sabotaged by whoever's putting in the idiotic POI's - and Garmin is going along with it, and ignoring our complaints.
So maybe if we spread the word on the internet and hurt their business they'll listen! By the way, if you think there's a lot of "gay and lesbian centers" shown on the CS maps, try looking up "alcoholic". There's hundreds of them, thousands of them! No public campgrounds, spotty hospital coverage, but there's an alcoholic drunk tank shown every place! Here's a new one I just noticed: gas station - another important POI for travellers.
The closest one shown to Grand Canyon is 50 or so miles away. There's one much closer - price gougers - but much closer. Not shown. Is there a way to get together and make some sort of formal complaint to those bums at Garmin?
Get 'em to give us our money back, or a better map? Not likely, huh? No public campgrounds, no national forests,. I've been visiting this newsgroup for a long time and do not get the impression that they react to posts here. They have been known to respond to emails and phone calls with specific data included -- vs. Now, now. This is a group of users. We cannot do anything about your complaint except perhaps offer sympathy.
There are three things you can do, though, if you are serious and not just blowing off steam. The Navteq company puts the "idiotic POI's" into the product. Garmin, as an important customer, may be able to influence what Navteq produces. You can vote with your wallet for a product that you find superior.
Or you can keep whining here and wondering why your complaints are ignored. Your call. That's a perfectly valid compaint, and a perfectly reasonable action to take. I agree with it completely. It apparently wasn't you, but some other poster s who claimed that Garmin have some sort of "responsibility". Hardly the case, shill for Garmin. We are complaining because of the garbage POI's - the gay and lesbian and alcoholic centers, but no public campgrounds, sparse emergency facilities, incomplete gas station info - very factual points indeed, though just "rants" to you.
I don't know, maybe gay and lesbian centers and alcoholic centers and bead shops and stuff are your favorite things, but not what most travellers are looking for on the road. OK, so let's spread the info around on the internet and hurt Garmin's business and force them to go to a better map company - like the MetroGuide v4 and its predecessors - so they can't just ignore us - or else let's show that a need exists for better GPS maps and get some better competition going!
As to my unanswered email to Garmin tech support about the failure of my VistaC to Autoroute on so many small roads using MG 6, I thought it was very specific and to the point email, even referring to specific highways darn, I missed an opportunity to rant.
They did not answer it, and each time I called they had a 35 to 40 minute hold; someone in this group answered my question, in a very short time, that MG 6 doesn't autoroute at all on a VistaC; I was fortunate to be able to return it and get City Select, which appears to be a mixed blessing, but is no doubt better than MG6.
These days emails are often better for tech support than phones, but neither worked very well for my question to Garmin, and this question had a very simple and specific answer. And so it goes And as we all know [as we have been told repeatedly by the droids on this group] there is no monopoly on suitable 'products' to use with that hardware which I already own, I'm sure I'll find something real soon.
Nope -- no real facts in the above. What is needed is specifics. What specific POIs would you like to see added, for example? Seemed like the list by z Not necessarily since Garmin could presumably negotiate for the right to include additional POIs from other sources. I believe Magellan had the Woodall campground database in some of their map products. Replacing the current campground POIs with the Woodall data would both reduce the size of the database and make it much more useful.
And a reasonably complete hospital listing would have minimal effect on the total number of POIs but could be very useful in emergencies. Experience says that communicating directly with Garmin or the map producer will be much more effective than posting comments here.
Which I've done. I've also noticed that while Garmin doesn't participate directly in this newsgroup they do sometimes send email responses to participants here. So whether formally or informally, there is at least some level of monitoring of the newsgroup. Grand Canyon is hardly a little known backwater visited by few, but rather an enormous international destination. We don't need all the gas stations shown in urban areas where there are plenty on every thoroughfare - but in remote places, like the Grand Canyon, it is very important.
I'll send the link to this thread to Garmin. Hope others do as well. Supported products are listed to the left side of the above web page. If you do I will buy a copy That has also been done already. That's why I think it is coming from the map producer.
But only Garmin could tell us for sure. I agree -- or at least the ability to load only POI items in certain categories and "Garbage" should be one category. Does that mean I can pay money and get my house in the POI list? Not that I want to -- but if that's how it works, that is just BAD.
And let you all find my favorite hidden campgrounds? No way :- More seriously: I favor the Foghorn Press Campground guides and keep the appropiate one s in the car on camping trips.
Good directions for getting there and lots of descriptive info re toilets, showers, stores, no. Hear hear! Especially one that can be continuously downloaded and updated. That would be a huge improvement. Just knowing where one of a particular name is is pretty limiting -- if you do not have some info on what is there. Do you really want to choose a campground based on where it is, without knowing if there is running water or not, etc.?
Not likely! Calls to a few of the places listed near a desired location would answer any questions about the available facilities. If you have any additional comments or questions, please do not hesitate to contact us via email or at the number listed below. I can't really tell if it even has roads from the website blurb.
Learn More - opens in a new window or tab Any international shipping and import charges are paid in part to Pitney Bowes Inc. Learn More - opens in a new window or tab Any international shipping is paid in part to Pitney Bowes Inc. Learn More - opens in a new window or tab.
Related sponsored items. Showing Slide 1 of 3. New New New. Seller Pre-owned Pre-owned Pre-owned. Parts only Parts only Parts only. Report item - opens in a new window or tab. Seller assumes all responsibility for this listing. Item specifics. Software Format:. Does not apply. Shipping and handling. The seller has not specified a shipping method to Germany. Contact the seller - opens in a new window or tab and request shipping to your location. Shipping cost cannot be calculated.
Please enter a valid ZIP Code. Shipping to: United States. No additional import charges at delivery! This item will be shipped through the Global Shipping Program and includes international tracking. Learn more - opens in a new window or tab. There are 1 items available. Please enter a number less than or equal to 1.
Select a valid country. Please enter 5 or 9 numbers for the ZIP Code. Handling time. Taxes may be applicable at checkout. Learn more. Return policy. Return policy details. Seller does not accept returns. Refer to eBay Return policy for more details.
You are covered by the eBay Money Back Guarantee if you receive an item that is not as described in the listing. Payment details. Payment methods. Select PayPal Credit at checkout to have the option to pay over time. Other offers may also be available. Interest will be charged to your account from the purchase date if the balance is not paid in full within 6 months.
0コメント